2nd Referendum on Lisbon Treaty

The fact that a second referendum on Lisbon Treaty is taking place on 2nd October is emminently broadcasted, whether in form of poster war, or booklet distribution, or debates on television and radio.

Lisbon Treaty

However, there are some rather dodgy information going round from both the “Yes” and the “No” camps, and I’m flabbergasted to hear some of the touted “facts” (“they’re going to make abortion legal”; “they’ll make us go to war!”; “there will be more jobs”).

Here are a few links, sites and PDF documents that are presented in plain simple English (none of the legal jibberish talk) that hopefully will help you better understand the Treaty and make decision on your vote.

To anyone who have only been listening to others talking convincingly about the Treaty, please don’t make up your mind yet until you’ve get a chance to at least look at the 2-pages summary above – it won’t take long, I promise. See for yourself if what they’ve informed you is correct.

Please do not use your vote to make political points over the currently very unpopular government – this is not the time for “protest vote”.

Please separate the issues that are at stake and vote accordingly.

Please vote based on informed decision.

Side note:

What prompted me to blog this was a friend who is a postgraduate student – so someone highly educated – who believes in the hearsays and actually told me emphatically that Lisbon Treaty will bring Ireland to war, be dictated by EU on taxation and legalise abortions. And I happened to have read these for myself and know that these were not the provisions within the Treaty. (No, said friend hasn’t read the Treaty information leaflet.)

Same goes, with another friend in the “Yes” camp, arguing that Ireland will be alienated and we’ll be losing more jobs. But these are speculative. However, with the Treaty not ratified, it does meant the EU remains embroiled in the current way it runs (which you can judge for yourself if they’re efficient or not). Also, there isn’t anything in the Treaty that promises more job to Ireland – unless ratification opens up EU for more members, thus bigger job market, and this is what counts as more job openings?

10 Comments so far

  1. Darryl Coleman (unregistered) on September 26th, 2009 @ 4:44 pm

    Well said Great information, keep up the great work!

  2. Ralf Grahn (unregistered) on September 26th, 2009 @ 6:37 pm

    I agree with most of what you say. It is a tad speculative to assert that the Lisbon Treaty will bring (lots of) new jobs, but most of the serious business leaders, economists and trade unions seem to agree that an Ireland perceived to place itself on the fringes of Europe, or even outside, would be a less attractive destination for foreign investors.

  3. Felix Staratschek (unregistered) on September 27th, 2009 @ 7:53 am

    Pleace vote for democracy and against the treaty of lisbon

    Dear irish people!

    Pleace stop the treaty of lisbon! Is is antidemocartic, militaristic, antisocial. The disadvantages are much bigger, than the advantages. The EU can live with its actuell laws. They should only be changed into a democratic direction. With the treaty of lisbon, the european council is able to change this treaty in great parts without asking the parliament. This is nearly the same law, which mades the nationl- rassistic- party of Germany so powerfull in our country in the year 1933. Our basic law (the german constitution) and all other european constitutions should not be replaced by the treaty of lisbon. But the new treaty tries to bring all right- sytstems in a lower level than the new european right. Here is my informationpage: http://sites.google.com/site/euradevormwald/english . When you have some more english information, pleace send me a link or text or write it into the visitors book of my page. And pleace spread this text all over Ireland.

    In the hope in your activities for a better Europe, Felix Staratschek, Freiligrathstr. 2, D- 42477 Radevormwald (Germany)

  4. Thomas Byrne (unregistered) on September 28th, 2009 @ 9:24 am

    Good links in the article there – it definitely pays off to get informed before making such decisions! However, I’m slightly sceptical about the impact of the Lisbon Treaty given the lack of weigth the EU has attached to its past treaties and mantras. Taking for example, the most basic principle of all, that of free trade, the European Court of Justice has an abysmal record at preserving the freedoms of citizens to access goods and services, a freedom guaranteed under article 49 of the EC Treaty.

    Instead, in industries such as online gambling, governments like the French have setup a monopoly within their country, preventing their citizens accessing suppliers from all over the EU. This reduces competition and drives up prices for punters – and is totally against the law set out in the EC Treaty! There’s a petition at http://www.right2bet.net looking to sort this out.

    If the EU isn’t going to obide by the treaties and agreements it ratifies, it calls into question the significance of new models like Lisbon.

  5. Lil (lilianl) on September 28th, 2009 @ 7:16 pm

    Darryl, thank you.

    Ralf, indeed, and with the high cost of operating in Ireland (although somewhat countered by low corporation tax), Ireland could ill afford being sidelined, making it more unattractive to foreign investors.

    Felix, could you tell us how is the Treaty militaristic and anti-social? I have not seen wordings that confer military power to EU by virtue of the treaty (and Ireland will maintain its neutral position) and surely it is anti-social to not allow more members to join (which is what the case will be, frozen membership, should the ratification doesn’t takeplace). Besides, the Treaty to my understanding, for the first time full recognise national parliaments as part of the judicial system, not as separate entity.

    Thomas, I am unfamiliar re the regulations that govern online gambling, so what do you mean by French citizens unable to access suppliers from all over the EU? And besides, I didn’t realise that gambling has “prices” per se, but that the value of a bet is dependent on how much risk the punter is willing to put a stake on?

  6. One Man (unregistered) on September 29th, 2009 @ 4:16 pm

    See for yourself if what they’ve informed you is correct.

    In order to do that, shouldn’t you put some links to those sites that explain the NO reasons?
    Please, let me (just an ordinary portuguese guy) help you with that issue:

  7. Lil (lilianl) on October 2nd, 2009 @ 7:50 am

    Hi One Man – apologies that your comment was caught by the spamcatcher for some reason and I’ve been busy and haven’t check it for a few days. Thanks for the link – the site looks interesting.

    I should have thought of that, but my initial purpose was just to lay out information, but I guess those would have been biased towards a Yes argument. Afterall, it’s their Treaty, and they want it passed.

  8. sweden laval strike (unregistered) on October 2nd, 2009 @ 4:26 pm

    YES = The EU dictatorship: Poverty under a brutal police state.:


    They’re going to ask Ireland to vote on Lisbon and the EU dictatorship again: Say No again.

    YES would make this last day of democracy in Europe, and start of The New world order fascist POLICE state EU.

    The New World Order is going to have its dictatorial way in the end with – or without an Irish “no – and we deserve it for not
    reacting in due time against the traitors – just said: “Pth! Conspiracy theory!”

    The Lisbon Treaty I. Brainwashed Political Brotherhood Unanimously Keen on Giving up Democracy:


    …corrupt EU now just needs the Lisbon Treaty to bring about its destruction of the last remnant of decency. Therefore, Mr.
    Barroso now offers 15 mio euro to the Irish city of Limerick… if…Our only hope to avoid the the disastrous Lisbon Treaty lies
    with one single man, Czech President Vaclav Klaus, the only decent and honest politician left in the EU…

    Vote NO- Save democracy and freedom of speech!




    Spoofing the Irish media and public with Lisbon “guarantees” that guarantee nothing




    Lisbon: Dumping Social Europe…




  9. One Man (unregistered) on October 3rd, 2009 @ 5:21 pm

    Afterall, it’s their Treaty, and they want it passed.

    Big businesses are coming. Thank you guys for voting yes.


  10. Lil (lilianl) on October 4th, 2009 @ 2:17 pm

    SLS, whoa, that’s a rather crazy leap/jump of conclusion into nazism etc!

    One Man, let’s hope for more good than bad to come with the ratification.

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